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Jerry Poindexter
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speckled trout pattern
Apr 6th, 2008 at 4:33am
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Howdy from Texas! I'm just getting started w/ the program and am having a hard time w/ the sizing. I thought I created a pattern that was 8mmX24.9mm. The thread count in the pattern is 63x196. It's apparent to me that 63 poly40 threads will be larger than 8mm. When I did a practice weave using poly40 design and "A" NCP wrap, I got a weave that measures roughly 16.5mmX39mm. The weave isn't tight, but thats a big difference in size. Is it obvious where I went astray? Thanks for any help that you might have. I would attach the pattern, but it's a wve file. Jerry
  
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Owen Dare
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Re: speckled trout pattern
Reply #1 - Apr 6th, 2008 at 9:57am
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Hi Jerry,
The displayed size in PicToWeave is based on the manufacturers published diameter of the thread. They are shown in this screenshot.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

It is at best a rough guide in the default state.
There are many variables in play that determine the finished size you will get. And everyone will weave differently.

In your case of 63 x #40 threads, if you could lay them exactly side by side, then the height of the weave would indeed be aproximately 8mm high. However because that never happens in real life, I have made all the thread sizes configurable so once you know what YOUR weaving technique requires, then you can adjust them accordingly.
I find most of my weaves come out 15-20% higher than stated depending on the thread brand I use.
Another person may pack their threads tighter or looser and require a different adjustment.
I will post some designs I have done and the finished sizes I got soon.
But effectively you must determine your own requirements.  You could try laying out 100 design threads of all different sizes and measure each.

Then wrap 100 turns of each size and see what you get.
The wrap threads have a couple of other factors that come into play.
Firstly, because it is under tension it will stretch and become thinner.
So 100 C threads wrapped will be smaller than 100 design threads stacked side by side.
This is catered for in PicToWeave by the "Stretch Factor" which by default is set to 0.8.  This means that the program assumes that a C thread under wrap tension will be 20% thinner than he same thread used as a design thread.  This is why you typically use say an A design thread and a B or C wrap thread.  Under tension the larger thread is reduced in diameter to something like the smaller thread, so the design stays in proportion.
The other factor in play with the length of the weave is how complicated the design is.
Every time you swap a thread from right to left, you are placing it between two wrap threads, thereby lengthening your finished pattern slightly.  A silhoette pattern will grow slightly less than a multi layer color change weave.

I have been considering for a while whether I should increase the default figures by 15-20% to help newcomers, but at the end of the day, everyone will have to define their own parameters to suit their style.
I guess if I guesstimate and "average" then some of the people will get close results rather than all of the people getting oversized weaves.
You will find as you get better and your weaves get tighter, then you will have to reduce the settings back toward the stated specs.

cheers,
Owen
  
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Owen Dare
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Re: speckled trout pattern
Reply #2 - Apr 6th, 2008 at 10:27am
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OK,
Just measured a couple of weaves I have done and compared the actual sizes to the theoretical sizes.

1:  Barramundi Silhouette weave. - 92 x Mettalic A threads high by 86 x C NCP threads wide.  PicToWeave says it should be 16.38mm high, x 17.5mm wide when using a 0.8 stretch factor.
Actual results are aproximately 20mm high x 22mm wide.
This is aproximately a 20% increase in height and 25% increase in length.

2: American Eagle Weave - 94 X Madeira #40 threads high by 74 x C NCP threads wide.  PicToWeave says 11.94 x 15.04 using a 0.8 stretch factor.
Actual results are aproximately 21mm high x 28mm long.
Some of the design threads I used in this one, were actually C threads so the height will be bigger than normal, but we can still see that in this case, being a 9 layer weave that the increases over estimated are significantly more than a sillhouette.

3:  Dragon weave done by Sandra.
Sandy did this one using metallic A design & Madeira #40 wrap.
PicToWeave said 15.84 x 17.98.  Actual was aproximately 20mm x 28mm, or about 27% growth in height and 51% growth in length.

The differences in growth between height and length could be stretch, or packing, or both.

When I get a chance I'll go over Doc's weaves and see what they come out at.
As I said, I suspec I can safely increase the defaults somewhat, but fine tuning will always be requires to suit your own style, the number of layers, and the read brand.

cheers,
Owen
  
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Jerry Poindexter
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Re: speckled trout pattern
Reply #3 - Apr 6th, 2008 at 11:17am
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Owen, thanks for taking the time to explain it. I've since resized the pattern to 47x164 and will give it another go. Jerry
  
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BigJohn
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Re: speckled trout pattern
Reply #4 - Apr 13th, 2008 at 11:44pm
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Hi Jerry,I am from Rio Hondo and wanted you to know how cool your spec looked..........Would you mind if I weaved into a few of the spec rods I sell........Give me a holler
  
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Raymond Adams
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Re: speckled trout pattern
Reply #5 - Apr 17th, 2008 at 11:53am
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Cool pattern Jerry! The weave is prtty tight too.

Hi Big John! Nice to see you here.
  
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